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Post by StuB on Dec 11, 2020 21:17:52 GMT -5
I'm asking the following because I'm helping add Tacpack (and ECM/RHAW) to a certain naval fighter project and we can see that Tacpack allows for air, land, sea and missile RWR threat types and that it also allows for RWR threat classes that are ground/sea SAM and AAA.
So, my question is....... will FSCAI at some point be implementing ground based Fire Control radar, such as the SON-9 "Fire Can" (used for the S-60 57 mm and the KS-19 100 mm AAA.) and the SON-50 "Flap Wheel" (used for the KS-30 130 mm AAA).......and if so, will it be possible for it to be done in a way that is Tacpack compatible?
I have the same question regarding AI radar, such as the types carried by the MiG-17,MiG-19 and MiG-21
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Post by Dutch Owen on Dec 26, 2020 11:34:21 GMT -5
The answer is yes, all those radar types will be implemented, and the FSCAI RWR receiver will detect them all.
At the present time, I don't know of a way to do it that's compatible with Tacpack, but I'm investigating it.
Dutch
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Post by StuB on Dec 28, 2020 15:56:21 GMT -5
The answer is yes, all those radar types will be implemented, and the FSCAI RWR receiver will detect them all. At the present time, I don't know of a way to do it that's compatible with Tacpack, but I'm investigating it. Dutch We have been looking at RWR/ECM for the project and we are a little bit frustrated because from what we can see, it looks like the Tacpack RWR does not allow for any differentiation between radar systems that are of the same type. For example, the SON-9 "FIRECAN" (Fire Control & Target acquisition radar for S-60 57 mm & KS-19 100 mm AAA) and the SON-50 "FLAPWHEEL" (Fire Control & Target acquisition radar for KS-30 130 mm AAA) each provide a similar function, but are very different from each other in terms of signal (and range). This means that a RWR should produce a separate and distinct audio tone for each system when they are detected. According to the Tacpack SDK Wiki, the RWR provides warnings solely based on SimConnect ID, threat type (AI, Ground, Sea, Missile and UV/IR), threat class (Unknown, SAM, AAA, Other/None) and threat priority (None, Search, Track and Critical...i.e guidance mode). So, this is leading us to think that (because the SimConnect ID is not a fixed value) if two different system have the same threat class, threat type and threat priority we will not be able to have the RWR differentiate between the two..... which means that it will only be able to play one of the audio tones. I think that if FSCAI followed similarly, but also allowed for a name variable it could be compatible with tacpack but still allow each radar to be distinct. You could then have warnings based on Threat Name, SimConnect ID , Threat Class, Threat Type and Threat Priority. A Tacpack RWR would still only be able to play one audio tone for all similar types of radar.... but a FSCAI RWR would be able to play the tones for any radar type based on the Threat Name. Something that I also noticed is that regarding the tacpack ECM (self-protection jammer), it is a simple on/off type. There does not seem to be any other variables associated with it. So it looks like it is 100% effective, no matter what distance it is from the radar site. Not exactly realistic. What would be interesting would be if there was a way to simulate burn through. I think it could be done (and still be Tacpack compatible) by including a variable in the jammer gauge that caused the it to cycle on and off based on it's distance from a radar site. So, beyond the burn through range, the jammer does not cycle at all. As it gets closer to a site it starts to cycle and the on and off rate gets slower, reducing the jammers effectiveness until it gets to a point where it stays off. |
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Post by hajolippke on Dec 30, 2020 5:47:31 GMT -5
Are you sure the Jammer/ECM is working at all in the TP-environment?
HAJO
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Post by StuB on Dec 30, 2020 15:35:41 GMT -5
Are you sure the Jammer/ECM is working at all in the TP-environment? HAJO I'm pretty sure it worked in the SWS Phantom... but it has been a while since I last flew it. I'll try to check it sometime tomorrow or Friday. EDIT OK, I just tested Tacpack ECM with the SWS Phantom against a single SA-2 site and it looks like it does work. I started at about 25000 ft in a slightly descending left turn, that kept the SAM site at my 10 O'clock position so I could keep eyes on it. I had the ALQ-51/100 powered on and set to RPT mode and I made no evasive maneuvers. As soon as the SAM site was online it started to track me and within 30 seconds it fired the first missile, which flew right behind me and never detonated. I then watched four more missiles do the same exact thing. By the time the sixth missile was fired I was at about 10000 ft and about 10 miles closer than from the start. This missile detonated right by my tail and damaged the aircraft extensively (both engines, right engine fire & partial hydraulic loss). I'll repeat the test again tomorrow to make sure it is repeatable.... but I know from tests with airplane without ECM that the SAM site has virtually 100% success with the first missile unless you can get down on the deck and break the lock before it gets to you. |
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Post by hajolippke on Dec 31, 2020 9:50:26 GMT -5
I only have the Iris A-10 with an ECM-pod and never had the feeling (although I always carry the pod and switch it "on") that it would do any good to me or harm to the SAM.
HAJO
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Post by StuB on Dec 31, 2020 14:12:14 GMT -5
I only have the Iris A-10 with an ECM-pod and never had the feeling (although I always carry the pod and switch it "on") that it would do any good to me or harm to the SAM. HAJO In the Tacpack SDK wiki, the only thing they say about the "self protection jammer" is that it is a "noise jammer". Unfortunately, they not say what method of noise jamming it uses, so we don't know if it uses the "spot", "sweep" or "barrage" method.....and they don't say if there are any variations on how well it works. Another type of jammer is "repeater" which is considered a "deception" jammer. This is the type that was fitted to fighters during the Vietnam The repeater method works by copying a radar site's return signal, amplifying it and then repeating it with a randomized delay. Eventually the radar scope looks like it is seeing hundreds of contacts. Here is a good video that explains how the 1960's era ECM worked: www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyFqaaqqph0&list=PL1kn63ViVv3LUJHjczR_mSh_qQVKnN3vG&index=2 |
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