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Post by hajolippke on Jun 3, 2020 5:48:40 GMT -5
Well,....:
12:21:47 User Aircraft shooting 50REAR at Object 1670 (at FSXatWarPack1_Tank_T72_Desert_ops) 12:21:47 Sound effect: .\FSCAI\Sound\AAS_Gun_RR.wav 12:21:47 Object 1671 Target FSXatWarPack1_SAM_SA6_StraightFlush_Grey_ops Hit by Object 0 with 50REAR (14 damage) 12:21:47 User Aircraft shooting 50REAR at Object 1671 (at FSXatWarPack1_SAM_SA6_StraightFlush_Grey_ops) 12:21:47 Sound effect: .\FSCAI\Sound\AAS_Gun_RR.wav 12:21:47 User Aircraft shooting 50REAR at Object 1673 (at FSXatWarPack1_AAA_ZSU23_Desert_ops) 12:21:47 Object 1683 Target FSXatWarPack1_TransportStatic_AN26_Grey_ops Hit by Object 0 with 50LEFT (7 damage) 12:21:47 User Aircraft shooting 50LEFT at Object 1683 (at FSXatWarPack1_TransportStatic_AN26_Grey_ops) 12:21:47 Sound effect: .\FSCAI\Sound\AAS_Gun_LT.wav 12:21:47 User Aircraft shooting 50LEFT at Object 1685 (at FSXatWarPack1_TransportStatic_IL78_Grey_ops) 12:21:48 Vehicle 1673 (ZSU-23-D) shooting ZSU-23 at user aircraft 12:21:49 Vehicle 1670 (T-62-D) shooting 50CAL at user aircraft 12:21:49 User Aircraft shooting 50REAR at Object 1670 (at FSXatWarPack1_Tank_T72_Desert_ops) 12:21:49 Sound effect: .\FSCAI\Sound\AAS_Gun_RR.wav 12:21:49 User Aircraft shooting 50REAR at Object 1671 (at FSXatWarPack1_SAM_SA6_StraightFlush_Grey_ops) 12:21:49 User Aircraft shooting 50REAR at Object 1673 (at FSXatWarPack1_AAA_ZSU23_Desert_ops) 12:21:49 Sound effect: .\FSCAI\Sound\AAS_Gun_RR.wav 12:21:49 Object 1683 Target FSXatWarPack1_TransportStatic_AN26_Grey_ops Hit by Object 0 with 50LEFT (11 damage) 12:21:49 User Aircraft shooting 50LEFT at Object 1683 (at FSXatWarPack1_TransportStatic_AN26_Grey_ops) 12:21:49 Sound effect: .\FSCAI\Sound\AAS_Gun_LT.wav 12:21:49 User Aircraft shooting 50LEFT at Object 1685 (at FSXatWarPack1_TransportStatic_IL78_Grey_ops) 12:21:49 Vehicle 1670 (T-62-D) shooting 50CAL at user aircraft 12:21:51 Vehicle 1673 (ZSU-23-D) shooting ZSU-23 at user aircraft 12:21:51 User Aircraft shooting 50REAR at Object 1670 (at FSXatWarPack1_Tank_T72_Desert_ops) 12:21:51 Sound effect: .\FSCAI\Sound\AAS_Gun_RR.wav 12:21:51 Object 1671 Target FSXatWarPack1_SAM_SA6_StraightFlush_Grey_ops Hit by Object 0 with 50REAR (18 damage) 12:21:51 User Aircraft shooting 50REAR at Object 1671 (at FSXatWarPack1_SAM_SA6_StraightFlush_Grey_ops) 12:21:51 Sound effect: .\FSCAI\Sound\AAS_Gun_RR.wav 12:21:51 Object 1673 Target FSXatWarPack1_AAA_ZSU23_Desert_ops Hit by Object 0 with 50REAR (6 damage) 12:21:51 User Aircraft shooting 50REAR at Object 1673 (at FSXatWarPack1_AAA_ZSU23_Desert_ops) 12:21:51 Sound effect: .\FSCAI\Sound\AAS_Gun_RR.wav
If you look closely, you can see the hits on the T62, with sparks flying away.
This IL76 is already smoking!!
Dutch, were you aware of that? I didn´t pressed the trigger once, all done by my virtual doorgunners!!
HAJO
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Post by hajolippke on Jun 3, 2020 6:01:31 GMT -5
Fu**!!! 12:54:03 Sound effect: .\FSCAI\Sound\AAS_Gun_RT.wav 12:54:03 User Aircraft hit AI Target with 50RIGHT inflicting 14 damage points 12:54:03 User Aircraft shooting 50RIGHT at Object 2306 (at FSXatWarPack1_SAM_SA6_Launcher_Forest_ops) 12:54:03 Sound effect: .\FSCAI\Sound\AAS_Gun_RT.wav 12:54:03 Aircraft 2306 NATO 'FSXatWarPack1_SAM_SA6_Launcher_Forest_ops' destroyed by user aircraft!
They killed Kenny... ehm, the SA-6!
And then the SA-13!
I have no idea why it began to move from it´s fixed position, but the ZSU-23-4 did the same.
And it´s destroyed:
HAJO
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Post by Dutch Owen on Jun 3, 2020 9:36:15 GMT -5
Well, congrats, looks like you have them working! You've successfully used a feature designed for level bomber self defense as door gunners for Hueys which is awesome.
The problem is they are overpowered. Those door guns aren't .50 cal they are more like .30 and shouldn't be able to do more than scratch the paint on a T-62.
Which points out a design flaw ... there should be a limit on potency vs. mitigation such that a low potency weapon can't even damage a high-mitigation vehicle at all. No amount of small-caliber projectiles will damage a heavy armored vehicle.
This is exactly why we do lots of alpha testing ... thanks Hajo!
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Post by hajolippke on Jun 3, 2020 11:25:50 GMT -5
Well, usual door guns are M60s (7,62mm), but also M134 Miniguns (7,62mm) and M2s (12,7mm). Those can do damage to AD-systems by damaging/blinding their sensors and radars. So, I think it is still a fair game! You also have to take into account that this "killing engagement" took around 5 minutes where I constantly circled around the unit.
The T62 got never killed, but the SAMs were. If the ZSU-23 would be more precise (or overcome the bug that it only fires in its "frontal arc"), it would have killed me long before I was able to do serious damage.
So, my opinion is that the balance is still ok.
HAJO
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Post by hajolippke on Jun 4, 2020 10:52:07 GMT -5
Airborne for a slightly different test....
AC-130,AC130,Aircraft,1,4,180,180,T,20LEFT,50LEFT,,,,, 20LEFT, 0, GUN ,A ,2000 ,0000 ,99999 ,00,00,8,1500, 30, 4, 45,1200, 25, 0 ,0,030,0800,3,* ,AAS_GUN_LT , Self-Defense Left Quadrant Gunship
HAJO
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Post by hajolippke on Jun 4, 2020 12:13:46 GMT -5
Back to testing...
This went not as planned:
For some reason neither my new 20mm Minigun nor the default 50cal opened fire at the hostile vehicles.
HAJO
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Post by hajolippke on Jun 5, 2020 3:23:14 GMT -5
OK, I think I found a partial solution: I increased the range of the small guns (50LEFT) to 3000. Now it works.
I was also able to see the smoke from the FAC (the first time!):
However, I have still no idea why my self-made 20mm did not work...
HAJO
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Post by hajolippke on Jun 5, 2020 16:04:02 GMT -5
And to add to the topic of overall "balance": I have put 4 (!) "50LEFT" into my Gunship. I was able to do some good killing, until one of the 23mm came to live and I happened to be in his closer targetting arc... Then I was toasted! So, when this bug of the 23mm (not turning towards their target) will be removed, it will be extremely dangerous to do this kind of flying. At the moment, a typical Gunship-profile is roughly 1000ft to 1500ft AGL at 145KIAS and doing tight circles around the target area. I'm a sitting duck for any 23mm.
I noticed that in this engagement (with FSCAI-spawned targets) and in another test-engagement with FSXWar-targets (SEA-theater) my guns only targetted Air Defence Systems and armed vehicles. For the first engagement with the FSCAI-spawned targets, this is understandable: Due to the still not fully satisfactionary working team-assignments around friendly and hostile bases, the spanwed targets were all "none" or "neutral", except for the armed vehicles, which I could set to "Communist" manually. But this meant that un-armed trucks were still not assigned to the "Communist"-team, and without a proper assignment my guns won't fire at them. I have no idea why on the second engagement against FSXWar-targets (at waypoint HCM1 - Ho Chi Minh 1) as well only some armed tanks were engaged - all objects in that area were clearly assigned to one team, and I was part of the other team. But no engagement from my guns...
HAJO
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Post by hajolippke on Jun 9, 2020 4:54:23 GMT -5
I improved the weapons suite of my AC-130...:
81LEFT,1,GUN,A,3000,0,99999,0,0,8,1200,30,0,45,1200,20,0,0,20,800,3,*, 50LEFT,0,GUN,A,3000,0,99999,0,0,8,1500,30,4,45,1200,15,0,0,30,800,3,*,AAS_GUN_LT,
AC-130,AC130,Aircraft,1,4,180,180,T,50LEFT,50LEFT,81LEFT,50LEFT,81LEFT,,,,
I have chosen to add some more power to the 81LEFT and to not add a new gun since my last results with adding "new" guns were not successful (guns were not firing).
I was quite happy with the result, though I´d still not dare to fly in an area with more than one active AAA.
Interesting is that I still need to be quite low over the target, around 1000ft AGL. At higher altitudes my gunners don´t fire.
HAJO
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Post by hajolippke on Jun 9, 2020 7:10:56 GMT -5
Some more impressions, this time "in country". I was attacking a VC-stronghold in the Mekong-Delta...:
My gunners soon started shooting at two small fishing boats and then also on FLAK that was present in that region.
For some reason it took roughly two circles I had to fly around that position before my gunners started firing, have no idea if they need some sort of calculation first, or target identification?
Anyway, it worked like charm, I could even keep the aircraft on autopilot and let it circle around the position, doing its thing.
HAJO
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Post by hajolippke on Jun 11, 2020 4:33:35 GMT -5
I made another test, this time against boats and ships. For unknown reason my gunners did NOT fire at them - I made sure that they were in a different Team, that I was close enough, they did shoot at me (with small calibre and 23mm), but no guns from my side.
I also observed an interesting thing: Before attacking the ships I departed from an airbase with hostile MiGs parked. I circled these as well with my AC-130, and my gunners DID shoot at them - but only when we were "in front of them". When we were looking at their backs, the guns remained silent. My hypothesis is, that this makes sense when shooting at an airborne target (you wouldn´t fire after a jetfighter that has passed you and is outbound, but you would when he is inbound and closing in). So, Maybe the parked fighters were treated like airborne aircraft...? Will continue testing tomorrow.
HAJO
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Post by hajolippke on Jun 13, 2020 6:58:16 GMT -5
Another observation: "A"-coded aircraft (for attacker) will not employ doorguns - you have to change the code to "T" for transport (haven´t tested "LB" and "DB" yet).
HAJO
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Post by Dutch Owen on Jun 14, 2020 18:32:23 GMT -5
Both LB and DB should work for door gunners. The concept was designed for LB.
Thanks for doing all this investigation into a side effect I didn't even intend...I'm glad and amazed it works as well as it does. IT does need a few tweaks.
Dutch
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Post by hajolippke on Jun 15, 2020 1:47:43 GMT -5
Thank you! Yeah, it´s a cool effect, at the moment I have the feeling that there are some "instabilities" concerning the targetting process of the gunners. Would be great to have some sort of "menu" where you can give orders to your gunners. Maybe quite similar to the wing-man-menu? "Fire at Air Defences", "Fire at vehicles", "Fire at installations/buildings", "Fire at Aircraft". And it may be neccessary to somehow make them shoot at targets that are not in your team. If some targets are unassigned or "none", they do indeed shoot at your aircraft, but your gunners don´t fire back.
By the way, I tested what happens if you are "behind" parked aircraft (facing away from you): The gunners will not shoot. They start shooting when you are "in front of them" again.
HAJO
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Post by hajolippke on Jun 28, 2020 9:57:30 GMT -5
I tested again against moving objects today. First I tested with a CCP-convoy of vehicles. This did not work, my gunners ignored the vehicles completely.
My hypothesis was, that moving objects in general will not be attacked by FSCAI-gunners. To prove that, I flew to the coast and spawned some ships. Interestingly, the spawned ships were only attacken when they were stopped, but some AI-ships were attacked while they were moving.
I also spawned an armed ship (OSA-class fast attack boat), which was not moving. My gunners did attack it, but very soon some sort of surrogate appeared behind the boat, and this surrogate was then attacked and probably destroyed, while the actual boat remained active and still kep shooting at me.
HAJO
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